IRAN TV: From this historical perspective, it appears rather paradoxical that the Jews’ first contact with the Ottomans came despite the Jews, especially in Europe, being of an unwanted and negative nature. I mean, although there are a number of unsympathetic emphases regarding the concept of Jews in the Qur'an, a representative of an empire basing itself on the Qur’an sent them galleys, allowed them into its territory in a kindly manner and even placed them under special protection, virtually issuing laws on the subject. Would you describe that process a little? Why were they expelled, why were they unwanted, and why did the Ottomans allow them in?
ADNAN OKTAR: The Christian attitude towards the Jews is maybe not all that impressive in the light of the descriptions in the New Testament, but it is stated in the Qur’an that the Jews, the Judaists, are human beings for whom we must feel affection. Of course we need to feel affection for the Jews; if a truly devout Jew sincerely wishes to live by his faith then he is one of the People of the Book. One can marry such a person, marry their women. They may be invited to dine and one can eat with them. Commercial relations are permitted. All social links are permitted, and one can live in the same part of the city as them. One can live with them in brotherhood. In that sense, full affection towards Jews is a religious requirement, and this is a very normal, a very useful thing, a religious observance. What is risky, however, is the way that irreligious Jews portray themselves as religious and, under the influence of satan and within their links to Freemasonry, seek to oppress the world. That is the problem we have. Otherwise no harm will come to anyone from any devout, religious Jew, who merely lives by his own faith. He seeks to adhere to the commandments of the Torah, and Islam defends that right. They are protected as set out in the Qur’an. But the danger is that there is a Darwinist, irreligious Jewish community. These dominate the press, the television stations, politics and Freemasonry. If these Jews were truly religious, this would reveal its influence in the press. For example, the major press organs, the press under Jewish control, constantly engage in irreligious and Darwinist propaganda. I am not saying that they should propagandize Islam. But if they are the People of the Book, if they are religious, they should espouse Allah, and say “Allah exists.” They should defend the prophets Abraham, Ishmael, Jacob and the prophets of the past, describe the Hereafter and speak of justice. There are many stipulations in the Torah that are compatible with the Qur’an, a great many, so they should speak of these. Everyone in any case loves such Jews, feels affection towards them, but the problem stems from irreligious Jews.
IRAN TV: On that basis, what was the real aim behind the emergence of Zionism? Or when Zionism emerged did it do so with Theodor Herzl? How did it begin?
ADNAN OKTAR: The region, the place where the Jews are living today is their homeland; so let them live there. That is quite normal. It is wrong to seek to expel or remove them from there. It is also indicated in the Qur’an that there is their homeland. All the graves of their forefathers are there, they spent their lives there, so of course they can live there, but maintaining military domination over the region, saying they are to control it – that is wrong. But they are welcome to live from one end of Israel to the other, on Turkey’s eastern border, anywhere in Turkey. Let them do business, or work in science. These people must be protected, enjoy the guarantees of the state and live in freedom. Jewish women can marry Muslim men, one can live in their midst, and they can perform their religious duties in synagogues if they so wish. These are good things, but the problem is that there is a Zionism under the control of satan, directed by satan…
IRAN TV: How did Zionism appear and what is its aim? What does this deviation, this ideological split aim at, and who are the players involved? And, in connection with that, could this Zionism be a form of taking revenge for the fact that they have been expelled from everywhere?
ADNAN OKTAR: No, no. It appears in the Torah, and there are also indications of it in the Qur’an. As these people turned away from Him, Allah sent them this [dispersal] in retribution. The Torah makes this clear. Allah says He will “disperse them across the world.” He says that this is a punishment on them. But He also says that if they pull themselves together and return to Him, they will again enjoy His love, and He will restore them to their homeland and bestow well-being on them. They are currently dispersed all over the world and do not really live according to the faith, having in fact very little to do with it at all. There are two kinds of Zionism. One is the concept of wanting to live in that region, to live in peace, of seeking security, of living in peace, worshipping in the lands of their forefathers and engaging in commerce. In that sense, I defend Zionism. In that sense, I, too, am a Zionist. I mean, I espouse it because this is what is taught in the Qur’an. It is something defended by the Qur’an. Let them live there, let them be happy, let them remember Allah. That is what we all want. It is what they will want. Let them become Muslims if they have the strength, the will. That, too, will be very excellent. But if they cannot, then let them live according to their own faith by adhering to the true Torah. These are People of the Book, and have protected status. In that sense, there is nothing wrong with Zionism. But there is also a second kind of Zionism. That is the Zionism we have a problem with. A Zionism controlled by Freemasonry. This rules the world. It dominates the world media, the press, and politics. Since it is a Zionism controlled by the great Masonic lodges of the world, it holds the entire world in the palm of its hand. Note how they never refer to Allah. On the contrary, they say there is no God at all. What kind of Zionists are they? How can you have a Zionist who maintains there is no God? Or a Jew? This means they are something else. They exploit Judaism; and Freemasonry is a means to do so. Freemasonry is a system whose origins go back to depths of history, to ancient times, and is probably the form that an originally true and Islamic order took after its control was assumed by the irreligious. It probably goes back to Prophet Solomon’s (as) times, and maybe even earlier. As godless people took control of a true order of Islam, they also acquired Muslims’ practices and methods and formed this system. Satan assumed control of this order, and it is satan himself actively directing Freemasonry. He appears either in the form of a human being, or else of that bizarre creature, and directs them in their headquarters. He does so either in audial or visual form, or maybe they make it happen by means of their own methods. Or maybe a person in hypnotic state makes contact with satan and transmits satan’s speech.Freemasonry lies at the root of the decisions to wage war here and there, in the Middle East, or to perpetrate massacres. For example, people are imputed and regarded as expendable. Whereas these are defenseless people. They have no power with which to oppose Freemasonry, Freemasonry on a global scale. They have fallen under their control and obey their commands. In other words, if someone has reached a certain position with a certain authority, that is pretty much impossible without Masonic control.
IRAN TV: Forgive me for interrupting. There appears to be a slight contradiction here. Freemasonry is an organization opposed to religion, acting on an operational level, yet on the other hand there is a completely religious motivation. It has a religious motivation, I mean, when we look at who are actually Masons, it looks like a center of freedom of thought opposed to Christianity. How do you evaluate these two opposite poles?
ADNAN OKTAR: Masons say it is wrong to shine the light suddenly into people’s eyes, in their books and magazines they say it should be shone gradually. How is that to be done? Initially they say “we are also Christians, we are also Jews, we are also Muslims, of course we believe in Allah, the universe has a sublime architect,” but then we see that what they refer to as the architect of the universe is the unconscious energy in the cosmos described by Marxists and materialists. In their view, of course. This is chaos, which we call the cosmos. They actually call it chaos, and refer to the unconscious energy in chaos as the great architect of the universe. This is godlessness, in other words. They do not state this openly to newcomers, but such people in any case join with the excitement of becoming part of such a social community, obtaining such a social status. That is because Masonry means being at the heart of many state officials, security authorities, politicians, institutions, and business. Such a person immediately acquires an elevated status. They have no intention of doing good for mankind, of course. To be honest, the aim is to enter into that community and make use of all its social possibilities. Some people may join out of curiosity, perhaps, but that is still the main reason. Sincere, devout Jews need to be warned. They need to be made aware of this danger. They [Masons] are now thinking of establishing a system of socialist administrations in the Middle East. For example, they are trying to use the PKK, that terrorist organization, to bring the east of Turkey to a socialist, in other words communist, state. And that is by no means the end of it. The separatist organization itself admits as much. It says, “This is the center of the ideology we intend to spread to all the countries of the Middle East.” It speaks of “this place” and “this idea.” It speaks of spreading out from here to the whole of the Middle East. And what does that mean? Dividing Turkey into east and west, in other words an eastern communist Turkey and a western communist Turkey. After a communist Iraq, a communist Syria and, if they can manage it, a communist Iran, and once the whole region has been made communist, they intend to push Israel into conflict with those countries and, with American backing, obliterate them. But be careful, then it will be Israel’s turn because on the basis of misinterpretation of the Bible, Israel is a community, a society that betrayed the Prophet Jesus (as) and must therefore be destroyed. They have made irreligious people out of them too, there is also intense atheist propaganda going on in Israel. We saw that all the students in the universities we visited to tell people about Darwinism were actually themselves Darwinists, with very few believers in Allah. People have come here from Israel, complaining that irreligion is widespread among the young. They say that Darwinism is widespread, and believers are very rare. That means they have gradually begun moving towards their objective. Then comes the destruction of Israel. This is satan’s dialectical strategy of conflict. satan has but one desire: human blood. He wants endless bloodshed. And then what? They will then come up with his thesis, and his antithesis, in other words conflict again. Satan believes the world will stop where bloodshed and conflict cease. That is his belief. That is what in fact lies at the root of Darwinism too. They believe that mankind advances through constant struggle. So blood must constantly be shed. That is what they taught Hitler and Mussolini. That is what they did. They believe that societies in which there is no bloodshed, no struggle, will be eradicated. That is why their strategy is to destroy both the countries of the Middle East and also the Jews. The Masons even use Christian evangelicals for that purpose, though the evangelicals have no idea in which direction events are heading. They genuinely believe, with the very best of intentions, in preparing a home for the Prophet Jesus (as), since they know that he will be returning, and in the need to teach the Bible and the teachings of the Bible there as of the present moment. The fact is, however, that Masonry detests the New Testament, in other words will never accept it. But evangelical Christians are unaware of this. Devout Jews will also be deceived, will also be told that Messiah will return. They will be told that the Israeli forces will destroy the godless ones around. The devout Jews there will believe all this because genuinely godless men, genuine communists, they really attack them, and they will defend themselves. All will be done on a convincing basis. That is why the danger in the region, satan’s strategy, needs to be made crystal clear. People are generally insensible of satan. When his name is mentioned they think of a being with horns and a tale, an imaginary being of that sort. Yet Masons take him very seriously. Just ask them! IRAN TV: In other words, you are speaking of a more concrete entity than such an imaginary being, are you not?
ADNAN OKTAR: Of course. Allah says He has assigned him close comrade to them. They take satan very seriously because satan shows them marvels. He whispers marvelous things to people in a state of hypnosis, such as the location of hidden things. He speaks of a secret document, many things, and those people believe him and genuinely see marvels. If they refuse to listen to him, satan hurts them, because they are his followers. In other words, they have no way of not believing. They therefore feel themselves obligated in one sense. The 33rd degree of Freemasonry is not bestowed lightly. The secret is only given to one from the Jewish people.
IRAN TV: What is that?
ADNAN OKTAR: That satan rules the world. IRAN TV: And it is particularly given to Jews? ADNAN OKTAR: They consider them more intelligent, and a single race is better, they imagine they can be more easily controlled through bonds of citizenship. They think that with a Hungarian, a Frenchman, a mixture, there will be great confusion due to the bonds of nationalism. But they imagine that with an Israeli, a Jew, the bond of common nationality will be a good one. They also imagine they will enjoy Jewish backing from the belief that “these people are religious, they even have a Jew at their head.” They will thus have secured backing from sincere Muslims and Christians, Zionists and Jews.
IRAN TV: Should this enlightenment in the West be regarded as a move towards the darkness within the framework you have set out? Do you evaluate this whole chain that began with the Jacobins and people like Nietzsche and extended as far as Marx and later Hitler on the basis of that foundation?
ADNAN OKTAR: Of course. They imagine that the Zionists set up this system. Not at all. Satan is a highly intelligent being. Abnormally intelligent. He is the most cultured being in the world, and there is nothing he does not know. That is why those who see his power are stunned by it. Since they are in direct communication with him, they regard it as more rational to believe in him rather than in Allah. They find him more convincing in their own eyes. It is most important that people be warned against the danger posed by satan. The process you mentioned is a most important one; all the people you cited were Freemasons. Can that be mere coincidence? Take high-ranking Masons: Marx was a Mason. Trotsky was a mason, and also had Jewish origins. Marx had too. They were specially chosen. And this was done to carry the process forward. A sincere Jew regards these Zionist beliefs as legitimate since they are based on the Torah. Yes, of course they can live in that region, build synagogues and worship freely. Muslims would encourage that rather than feel uneasy at it. There can be no question of anything else.
IRAN TV: This can be seen in the model of the Prophet and also in the Ottoman Empire.
ADNAN OKTAR: Of course. Is atheism better? Of course these people will be devoutly religious. No harm will come to anyone from a devout Jew. He will not cheat in business, nor double-deal, and will take care over what is lawful and what is forbidden. The Torah discourages the consumption of wine, for example. It says, “do not become drunk.” Islamic garb is encouraged. Islamic foods are encouraged. They have their own various prohibitions of course, but this is also compatible with the Qur’an…
IRAN TV: Was the Ottoman Empire an obstacle from the Masonic point of view as we approach the present day? Was that highly tolerant and cultured state, which drew its inspiration from the Qur’an, a threat from the Masonic perspective? We see they infiltrated the Young Turks movement. How do you interpret that process?
ADNAN OKTAR: Sultan Abdulhamit committed an error there. He left the Masonic lodges to their own devices in one sense. What should have been done was either to enter the lodges and take control of them, or else to ban them entirely at that time. He could have placed believers in the lodges. The Young Turks movement advanced before everyone’s very eyes, took control of the key points of the Empire right before everyone’s eyes and tore the Empire down, again right in front of people’s eyes. This should have been headed off right from the start. The sewage waters should have been blocked off before the flooding began. The conduit down, which Freemasonry ran, should have been stopped up. At the very least, he could have announced that people were free to meet in their own lodges but that he wanted no activity inside the state institutions. Its influence over the senior military and the state could have been prevented, since the Empire’s intelligence organs were very powerful and were also entirely in Sultan Abdulhamit’s hands. But this was destiny, of course. And destiny took its course. The will of Allah was done, and the Empire collapsed. Yet this is the solution. People need to be warned of the snares of satan, and precautionary measures must be taken.
IRAN TV: You referred to the presence of Freemasons within this movement.
ADNAN OKTAR: Of course, Young Turks was a Masonic organization.
IRAN TV: What was the influence of Freemasonry in the processes involved in the founding of the modern Republic of Turkey? Different claims have been made of course, but some say the lodges dissolved themselves, and others that they were shut down by Ataturk. Was that a political reflex of the times, a reflex such as the disappearance of any opposition, or were there more specific reasons?
ADNAN OKTAR: Ataturk had a patriotic perspective, and it is quite normal for someone with a patriotic perspective to take such a decision. He saw the danger, which was in any case crystal clear. He gave open instructions for the lodges to be closed, and closed they were. Yet Freemasonry is a terrible evil, like the plague. It does not just remain skin-deep, and so cannot be cured with ointments. It enters into the body and grows cunningly. It is almost unpreventable, the only solution being religious study. That means work to be performed in the light of the moral values of the Qur’an. Otherwise, a Freemasonry left to its own devices will keep on growing. For a Mason any building’s basement is a suitable place for a lodge. It is in any case based on secrecy, based on the keeping of secrets. It makes no difference if one lodge is closed down or not. They merely say they have gone into hibernation. And that means rejuvenation and a restoration of one’s strength. A person sleeps in order to refresh and recover strength, to be more energetic. While sleeping… yes, what were you going to say?
IRAN TV: Darwin’s theory in schools, and that a turning away from religion lies at the root of this. But speaking in terms of Turkey in particular, do the Turkish public actually attaches any credence to these effects? Because religion still seems to have its proponents, or so it seems to me. Does this effect people on more senior levels, in critical positions? With Darwin’s theory they have set up a more progressive grouping in terms of the concepts of progress and regression, and refer to the public, who are more religious, whose relations with Allah are maintained on a more traditional level, as more backward… Could you enlighten us on this subject, please?
ADNAN OKTAR: This is the most effective implementation of the system of satan. In other words to try to excommunicate anyone who seeks to demonstrate the invalidity of Darwinism, to round up their books. As you know, France tried to do just that. There is currently complete panic in America and other countries. Because Darwinism has been dealt such a body blow that there is now way of it being put back together or made whole again. There is nothing left to be done. And Darwinism’s back was broken very suddenly. Had it been a slow process they could have taken the appropriate precautionary measures. They are not that stupid. They would definitely have taken precautionary measures, but they awoke too late. It’s all over and done with now. There is nothing they can do. All the people they most trusted now have copies of that book.
IRAN TV: Forgive me. Your efforts have prevented Darwinist views or theory from dividing people from Allah, but you also speak of a project of degeneration, these people seeking to cause immorality if they cannot alter religion; who is doing this? Who are the main players? Do you really believe in such a project?
Is there a project along the lines “if we cannot change the faith then let us at least cause moral degeneration”, in Turkey?
ADNAN OKTAR: Look and see how openly Freemasonry speaks on the subject. It describes the beauty of immorality by saying “A pig loves its own filth. So what? An immoral human being can also enjoy filth. An immoral human being is as innocent as a pig.” Its own texts state that. Moral degeneration is a highly important project for Freemasonry.
IRAN TV: Can we give this a slightly more concrete expression?
ADNAN OKTAR: It takes place through the media, the press, the commentators, and through silencing those who defend the truth. For example, they slandered me in all kinds of ways, accused me of every crime imaginable, because I oppose the proponents of Darwinism, because I maintain the truths of Islam, because I advocate the existence and oneness of Allah. They have accused me of just about every crime under the sun. But I pay no attention to any of that. I regard it as an honor. Of course anything may be perpetrated against a Muslim during the spreading of the faith. Persecution, oppression, torture – all these things are possible, but I rejoice in them. Indeed, were there no such oppression or slander I would start to worry, worry what was wrong with me. In other words, I give thanks for all these things, Insha’Allah.
IRAN TV: What is it that makes you “even more of a threat than the PKK,” as one interior minister of the time put it?
ADNAN OKTAR: Look, that is a most meaningful term. I am more dangerous than the PKK because for people with that mindset the PKK is not a threat at all. I consider Sadettin Tantan free of these. It is no danger for people who think along those lines. Those who struggle against satan represent the real danger. Because the PKK is a friend of satan, a body that supports satan. So why should they fight the PKK? The real fight ought to be against those who defend Allah, who struggle against satan. They don’t get these orders by themselves. Satan whispers and commands such things while they are in a state of trance, which is why they attack as one. Those who attack me do not generally do so on their own. They attack in a pack. In Turkey and in Europe, at exactly the same time. Because the orders come from the same place – Freemasonry.
IRAN TV: I have been unable to follow just how this is reflected in Europe, but would like to learn.
ADNAN OKTAR: Thousands of reports have appeared. Not just one or two. Some reports have appeared from Jewish or Israeli organizations seeking to prevent the distribution of my book. But if they are Jewish, why are they made uneasy by my espousal of the existence of Allah? They are not at all disturbed by the dissemination of books about Darwinism, or books in defense of satan, so why do books about the existence of Allah trouble them so much? They must have fallen under the influence of satan. That is highly significant.
IRAN TV: You have drawn a most interesting distinction here. There are those you refer to as the People of the Book, the religious community, those who still live by the faith, who are quite innocent, and you set those to one side. Then you speak of the need to oppose a more Zionist or Masonic mindset, a more ideological one, on a global basis. But in terms of the Middle East, and especially after the events of September 11, we see that Christians, or more traditional Christians, entered into a partnership with Israel under the influence of evangelical interpretations. How do you evaluate this?
ADNAN OKTAR: Evangelicals are basically harmless. Jews are also sincere and innocent people. But when they fall under the influence of Freemasonry and are directed by it, they acquire a satanic nature. They are unaware that they are being so managed, and if they realized no evangelist could possibly want to be a tool of satan. Neither would any honest Jew wish to serve satan. But they do not realize, and that is where Freemasonry exhibits a devilish intelligence.
IRAN TV: Could you tell us something about these Masonic movements in Turkey? What do they do, and how are they organized? What are their aims, what are their global connections? Are these processes capable of analysis in terms of the state? In other words, can they be controlled? How? Or are they actually inside the state itself?
ADNAN OKTAR: Of course the organization has infiltrated the state. It is covert, and reveals no secrets. The system of secrecy is most important, one of the main preconditions. That is why it is impossible for the state to maintain surveillance on Freemasonry. That makes it is easy for them to infiltrate and tend to the state apparatus. They also have overt institutions, with open memberships, but these are in fact all for show. Lists are given to the police stations, stating that these are the Masons, but these lists have nothing to do with real Freemasonry. These are just ordinary citizens. No real Mason becomes a member. In other words, their names are not recorded. Their names are only to be found in overseas lodges and secret lodges. These can’t be public, if it is public it means that the secrets are exposed, in other words he can’t be a mason like this.
IRAN TV: Is Freemasonry seeking legitimacy, because there is something unpleasant about it, a conceptualization connotation, in Turkey? Are they looking for legitimacy?
ADNAN OKTAR: Masons do not need legitimacy. Theirs is already a satanic institution. Why legitimacy? Will Masonry come to an end because the public rejects it? It can actually grow better and more intensely. Freemasonry indeed, could never develop if the public were to accept it.
IRAN TV: Really?
ADNAN OKTAR: Of course, it is a satanic system.
IRAN TV: There is something I would like to learn. It concerns Islam's being equated with terrorism, which has been applied to the entire Middle East--and in which, they would now like to forceably include Turkey. How do you evaluate this? Because you describe the media as highly influential, and now people are being pumped full of the concept of Islam and terror. How do you regard this process? Is there a Masonic or Zionist influence at work here?
ADNAN OKTAR: The logic here is like this; water extinguishes fire. If someone refers to water as fire, no matter how illogically, or says that Islam is a system that actually encourages terror, then the willful perversion in both cases is exactly the same. Islam is water. It is the water that extinguishes fire. In other words, if terrorism is fire, then Islam is the water that puts it out. Moreover, the structure of Islam is in any case utterly inappropriate for terror. Islam has a calming nature. Some of the aims of the faith are to put an end to terror and strife. Because Islam is also a system that opposes the system of satan, so how could it do any such thing as supporting terror?
IRAN TV: How do you regard these endeavors?
ADNAN OKTAR: It is the same organization that is involved. That is the image that Freemasonry seeks to impose on the world.
IRAN TV: Could you provide some concrete examples? One story really attracted my notice, for instance. Two concepts have been formed, Islam and terror, in order for America to enter into the Middle East. The initial preparations were made on the mental, the psychological level. But there have been a number of events in Europe, in Bali, which Islam and terror were equated as one. Similar events took place in Turkey, with the attacks on synagogues or the bombing of the HSBC building. What is your view of all this. Are all these things interconnected? ADNAN OKTAR: All this is of course entirely directed by Freemasonry. The helpless are just being used. In Turkey you can have someone killed for 3 –5 billion TL. In other words, it is no problem for Freemasonry to find a helpless wretch, or someone who is mentally ill. Neither is it hard for them to cause terrorism. All the major terrorist organizations are in the hands of the Masons, and of the major security agencies. And the major intelligence organizations are themselves in the hands of the Masons. In other words, nothing is random. That is why it is easy for a Mason, for Masonry, to bring about major terrorist incidents. They just press the button at the time they choose, and it happens. People become aware of Freemasonry and terrorism thanks to a struggle carried out against satan. The public can be turned against Freemasonry, taught about terror, by way of the struggle against satan. This can only happen through a closer understanding of the moral values of Islam taught in the Qur’an, and people coming to have a better knowledge of satan’s description.
IRAN TV: This worldwide organization incurs financial costs. It has costs and needs to be financed. Whose hands are that financing in?
ADNAN OKTAR: The Masons are a force that has acquired a store of capital. All the famous big companies are under Masonic control. Whichever one you look at you find a Mason. They have also assumed control of Jewish capital, therefore. And therefore they have one single, enormous resource under their control. They have no problems in that regard.
IRAN TV: From that point of view, you mean.
ADNAN OKTAR: Exactly.
IRAN TV: But that means the source are identified as you said.
ADNAN OKTAR: Of course.
IRAN TV: With your permission, maybe we can now come to the messages these Masons in Turkey issue in day-to-day life or by using the media and popular culture, and look at some concrete instances?
ADNAN OKTAR: It is quite clear to anyone who looks carefully. The subject that Masons are most careful about is emphasizing to society that there is no God. That is what they most concentrate on. After it is done, it is easy for people to fall into satan’s clutches. And there is no need to engage in any special propaganda of degeneration for that purpose. That is the first issue. Additionally to that, however, we can clearly see that immorality is in any case encouraged on the television and in the newspapers, and there is no need to state it all again. Wherever you see such things, it means that they are involved. The Masons are involved, in other words.
IRAN TV: You give concrete names in your book on Judaism and Freemasonry. Could you tell us something about those names?
ADNAN OKTAR: It would be easier for you to take it directly from the book, as it would take up a lot of out time. The list is endless. But of course …
IRAN TV: It is noteworthy that that they are rather more elitist, rather more select; to put it plainly, their Jewish identities originate from Sebatay. Is that a coincidence?
ADNAN OKTAR: yes, masonry makes use of Sabbateans, which is a large, powerful organization in Turkey. They have now turned their attention to me. Sabbatean families are becoming involved. That is easier for the Masons, as the Sabbateans are neither Jewish nor Muslim or anything. They are very interesting, with interesting beliefs and very different philosophies, but right from the outset they have been under Masonic control. In Ottoman times Sabbatai Zevi himself was under that organization’s patronage. The movement was thus able to spread with ease. But the important thing is the activities against this movement. The Qur’an tells us this. Satan’s system will be torn down, will collapse, in the End Times.
This will come about with the return and appearance of the Prophet ‘Isa (as) and the coming of the Mahdi. Since the time of both is approaching, that is what underlies, what is going on at the moment. This is what lies at the root of the panic. Masonry is taking intensive precautionary measures against the return of the Prophet ‘Isa (as) and the coming of the Mahdi. They know about this. And it is satan who tells them. Such a thing is going to take place in the Middle East, so be prepared, says satan, and take the requisite precautions. They are doing these things on that basis. They are concentrating on those places they estimate the Mahdi may emerge from. They are concentrating on those place where they estimate the Prophet ‘Isa (as) may return, spreading greater strife and shedding blood there. This is highly significant. They are concerned over Jerusalem, for example, and have literally turned it into a city of terror. A city of chaos and anarchy. They are also suspicious of Damascus, and are currently preparing to shed blood there, as well. Since they do not know where these two will appear, they are working on precautionary measures in the most likely places. We shall witness a war between the satanic conception and the system of the Mahdi within the next 10-15 years. The latter will eventually be victorious. The movement will achieve success with the help and support of the Prophet ‘Isa (as), and the world will attain peace and security. For the first time in history, the world will enter an age when Islamic moral values reign on a global scale, an age of joy and plenty and peace. This is what underlies satan’s restlessness before this happens. There is panic at the moment, but that will soon be quelled. We can see that the time is approaching from the panic among Freemasons. That is how we can tell, if we are asked. For example, Pharaoh shows us the Prophet Musa (as). We ask who caused Pharaoh’s panic. And we see the Prophet Musa (as). We ask about Nimrod’s state of panic, and we see the Prophet Ibrahim (as). We need to concentrate our attention on whoever or whichever region is in a state of restlessness. In other words, masonry and the system of satan revolve around the people concerned, around the events and communities concerned. Since we represent a community that is preparing the way for the Mahdi, since we espouse the moral virtues of the Mahdi and the Qur’an, and since they are highly suspicious of us in the way as people who prepare the groundwork of that system, they are waging a struggle against us. They are waging a struggle against us because they regard us as the forerunners.
We are longing for the Prophet ‘Isa (as) to return. They can see we are in a state of expectation, and are attacking us with all their might. That is what lies at the heart of what is going on.
IRAN TV: I would like to say something. Damascus has a role to play in the account of the system of the Mahdi you give in your book. Is this connected with the latest developments concerning Syria? If we relate the latest developments with the hadith…?
ADNAN OKTAR: That is the only thing at the heart of it. The panic caused by the fear of the coming of the Mahdi and the return to earth of the Prophet ‘Isa (as). Nothing else. There was intense panic in the media when I stated that that the time of the coming of the Prophet ‘Isa (as) was close at hand. A panic that lasted for days.
IRAN TV: How did they react?
ADNAN OKTAR: Let me present it to you with written documents. But it was a fierce reaction. Why panic if the Prophet ‘Isa (as) is not going to come. Why such unease? There was a huge outcry when I said the Prophet ‘Isa (as) would be returning. They say he will not be returning. So why don’t they calm down? Then the matter is closed, there is nothing to worry about. But it means they are also convinced of his coming. And why are they so worried, so spooked at the idea of the emergence of the Mahdi? If that is not going to happen either, why don’t they cool down? But then again the matter is over and done with. Rest in peace. But they are just as convinced of this as we are, and that is very odd, because it is satan who informs them. They are more convinced when satan tells them than when the verses of God do so. Satan says they will be appearing. Watch out for that region there, he says, pay the closest attention to it. Otherwise if they do not believe, they don’t take it seriously at all. If they were to tell me that Buddha was going to return to earth, if Buddhists told me that, I would certainly not panic. Why not? Because I do not even think about such things, which are of not the slightest concern to me. I just say it because you started this conversation.
For example, Masons believe that Adonay, the Masons’ leader, will return during the End Times. Is anyone in a panic over that? Not me. But look how the earth trembles when one speaks of the coming of the Mahdi. That means they have no doubts on that subject. They are in a state of panic because he genuinely is going to appear. But they will also realize that their panic is unfounded because the Mahdi will protect them, too. They will shelter behind his compassion. They will be placed under his protection. Because the Mahdi will not interfere with anyone with any belief unless his belief harms Islam. Christians will be able to live at ease, as will Jews, and atheists. But nobody will just sit back and watch if they start spreading atheist propaganda, however.
IRAN TV: The Christians also have a deep-rooted expectation of a Mahdi, and such an expectation is also to be found looking at matters from the Judaic perspective. And also in Islam. Everyone shares that same expectation. But is there any chance of such agreement in the Christian and Jewish worlds, based as they are on Masonry, a hostile element? Is Masonry aware of your involvement and that of people like you? Are there any anti-Masonic movements in the world, are there any people feeling uneasy for them and are there people bringing up these matters?
ADNAN OKTAR: The Messiah the Jews are awaiting, the one they call the Savior Messiah, is actually the Mahdi. But he is not the same person as the Prophet ‘Isa (as). He, the Prophet ‘Isa (as), will return. But the one they call the Messiah fully matches the Mahdi we see from the descriptions in the Torah. In other words, the coming of an age of plenty, well-being, the freedom to live by one’s faith, and peace in the region. Because when the Messiah ‘Isa (as) comes he will place his two hands on the Mahdi’s back and push him forward, telling him to lead the daily prayers, and he makes him imam. ‘Isa will not assume control when he comes, but will give that duty to the Mahdi.
The Mahdi is a man of love, of affection and compassion. He will not come to oppress. We are told, for instance, that one characteristic of the Mahdi is that he does not spill blood. He will not even awaken someone who is asleep. That means that an age of intense love and affection will come, an age of compassion, of justice, and will pervade the whole world, and even the birds in the air and the fish in the sea will be content with him. So even animals will be protected and shown affection and love. The accounts say the Mahdi will plant a dry stick and it will blossom. That means that everywhere will become fertile and bloom, and beauty will be everywhere. Fruit trees will bear too much. That is a reference to modern agriculture, a reference to the age of automated agriculture. The accounts say the fields will be sown without using animals, and how else is that possible? This may be a sign of the End Times.
IRAN TV: How are these signs to be evaluated in real terms, for example gold emerging from beneath the River Tigris?
ADNAN OKTAR: Yes.
IRAN: The razing of Damascus…
ADNAN OKTAR: Yes.
IRAN TV: There are a great many accounts, and Istanbul even appears in some of the hadiths. How are we to evaluate these in real terms, what awaits the Middle East afterwards, or what awaits Turkey, to be more accurate?
ADNAN OKTAR: To tell the truth, there is no power greater than that of Allah. We are explaining outwardly. It is He Who created even satan. It is Allah Who gives him his power. Although Allah may appear to be struggling against satan, satan is in fact under Allah’s control. Allah will impose His rule, even by using His titles of Kahhar and Jabbar, and He does and nobody can stand against that or stop Him. They see that themselves. The Mahdi will appear, for example, despite all the obstacles put in the way. ‘Isa (as) will return, again despite any obstacles. Islam will prevail, despite all and any obstacles. [As in the hadiths of our Prophet] the waters of the Euphrates would be stopped, and that indeed happened, dams were built and the waters stopped flowing. There was a photo in the papers, the Euphrates was dry, and that portent had come true. The portents say that Afghanistan will be invaded in the time of the Mahdi. And so it was. They speak of a war between Iraq and Iran, and that also happened. They speak of Iraq being invaded, and that has also come to pass. They say there will be an attack on the Kaaba in the time of the Mahdi, and that took place. They say the Sun and Moon will be eclipsed twice at 15-day intervals during the month of Ramadan, and that also occurred, in 1980. All these things happened in the 1400s, according to the Hijri calendar. The appearance of the Mahdi has coincided with the date expected. The Prophet (saws) says the Mahdi will be a sayyid, descended from him. Yet for some reason, under the influence of satan, one part of the community is afraid of the Mahdi, of his coming. But if the Mahdi appears then you will be able to live in comfort, in pace and brotherhood, so what are you afraid of? In other words, these people put up with the system of oppression, of suffering, but are alarmed at the prospect of the appearance of the Mahdi. That is the age we are now rapidly approaching.
IRAN TV: Is there such a movement that is the opposite of Masonry? Are Christians aware of it? We cannot speak of one, standard Israel or one generalized image of the Jews, but is there such an opposing pole?
ADNAN OKTAR: This will occur when the Christians turn away from Christianity and convert to Islam following the coming of the Prophet ‘Isa (as), and will be under the prophet’s control. They will struggle with these. An entity known as the Antichrist will assume command of the Masons, someone who is in direct communication with satan, who produces marvels because he is in league with satan. The Antichrist is one who amazes people by telling them the knowledge brought by satan and who thus creates considerable respect for himself. When ‘Isa the Messiah comes he will expose the Antichrist’s (Dajjal’s) charlatan and fraudulent nature and make him unable to produce any more marvels. That is why Said Nursi says we will need a prophet who works miracles, in the face of the marvels of the Antichrist, a prophet who works miracles in the face of this extraordinary state of affairs. He says that the Prophet ‘Isa (as) will definitely return, in other words it is certain that he will descend to Earth, however not everyone but only his closest followers will recognize him with the light of faith when he first appears. He will come and start working against Masonry in the very near future, and will struggle against godless Zionism, and the movement of the Mahdi will also begin, and perhaps has already done so, and the two will thus engage in very intensive activity.
Said Nursi says that the scale of the system of the antichrist, of godlessness, is so enormous that it nearly matches that of a minaret. He also says that the Prophet ‘Isa (as) is just about the height of a human being, meaning that he will be very small in contrast to the armies and political power of the antichrist, but that he will still have enormous power. This applies to the Mahdi in exactly the same way. No matter how few followers he may have, says Said Nursi, they will be as powerful and valuable as a physical army. He adds that when the Mahdi first appears even he will not realise who he is, that he is the Mahdi. He says that the Mahdi may perhaps be recognised in the End Times, through the light of faith… In other words, this is unknown.
IRAN TV: So we may have no concrete name or location at that time…
ADNAN OKTAR: Of course not… In any case, the Mahdi will not appear and claim to be the Mahdi, he will not say, “My friends, I am the Mahdi.” Others will probably make that claim since he will be the cause of Islamic moral virtues coming to prevail, and will say that probably this is him.
IRAN TV: The same thing presumably applies to the antichrist.
ADNAN OKTAR: Of course…
IRAN TV: And neither is that a concrete name or location…
ADNAN OKTAR: Of course, but the antichrist will eventually make contact with the Prophet ‘Isa (as). People will of course see that. But the system of the antichrist is an ideological system, which means it cannot be seen in those terms, although the antichrist, put in a state of trance by satan, will be clearly visible. Even his nature is determined; it is even said that he will have one blind eye, and one cross-eyed one. He is unable to do anything about his own eyes, but he will appear saying “I am ‘Isa (as), I am the Messiah”. That is why he will make use of Christians’ naïve but sincere beliefs.
IRAN TV: Is it the system of the antichrist’s idea to deify the Prophet ‘Isa (as), then?
ADNAN OKTAR: Naturally, of course… Because ‘Isa (as) insists in the Bible that he is the servant of Allah, a prophet of Allah. This is made clear in the Bible so many times, it cannot be doubted. But some people say he is the son of Allah (Allah is beyond this), it says so in the Torah, he is the son of Allah (Allah is beyond this). Every believer, every human being is the son of Allah, or the daughter of Allah in the case of Muslim women, but this is a symbolic statement. In other words, we are all the servants of Allah. A Muslim may also say we are the soldiers of Allah. When it is said “We are soldiers of Allah” it is illogical for anyone to say that he is the solider of Allah in the real sense. It is not in this sense. Of course, this is a symbolic statement.
IRAN TV: At the end of the day, Christians believe this, too, that ‘Isa (as) will return. The Jews have held the belief right from the outset, and the state they founded in Israel is one based on belief. The Muslims have a Mahdi army in Iraq and in Iran. And also the Muslims in Turkey. That means, in essence, that there is a religious war going on.
ADNAN OKTAR: Yes…
IRAN TV: Some people say there is a clash of civilisations, or a war of religion…
ADNAN OKTAR: No, not at all. There is a struggle against satan and anti-satan.
IRAN TV: That is your definition?
ADNAN OKTAR: Of course. There is nothing else. The Christians call it the antichrist and are aware of the system of the Dajjal (antichrist). But when he emerges the antichrist will act very cunningly. He will say that he is Allah, he is the Messiah, and in the light of Christian belief they in any case imagine that the Messiah to come will claim to be Allah. This man will say that if they want to see a marvel he will raise their dead father from the grave, and satan will give them halluc finations, and people will be hypnotised in other words into seeing visions. They will be shown illusions, which is something that hypnotism makes perfectly possible. In other words, all this is perfectly possible.
IRAN TV: Is that what you directly ascribe the co-operation between America and Israel to?
ADNAN OKTAR: Of course. Sincere evangelicals in America, and sincere Christians, are just being used. We need to make a distinction. It would be irrational to be inimical towards evangelicals. They are the People of the Book, so why be hostile towards them? The Jews in Israel are also the People of the Book, so why should we be opposed to them? The truth is we should be opposed to those who use them. Since Christians and Jews are expecting the Messiah, they will produce the antichrist and say that he is their Messiah. By that I mean the antichrist who is in direct league with satan. If you want marvels, they will say, here you are, and people will believe because they are shown illusions and hallucinations. This will all be convincing because Masonry will support it by means of the press and television. Said Nursi says that the Mahdi will be unable to overcome this by himself and will need the help of a prophet capable of working miracles. Because the Mahdi cannot break that hypnosis placed over people. Only Prophet ‘Isa (as) will have the power to do that. When he comes the Messiah ‘Isa (as), the true ’Isa (as), will meet the false Messiah, who will appear in the guise of a democrat; even though there is aggressiveness and bloodshed in his nature, he will still give the appearance of being a democrat. We can see this from the accounts available. The false Messiah will tell the true Messiah to prove that he is a liar. He will say that he is raising someone’s father from the grave, and the person involved will actually see that happening, because he has been hypnotised. The Messiah ‘Isa (as) will break that hypnosis, and the man will see that his dead father is not really there at all. He will reveal others of his attributes, and the hypnosis will be duly neutralised. We are then told that, humiliated, the antichrist will flee towards the Ludgate (Bab-e-Lud). His proponents themselves interfere with him in such a case because there is a serious fraud. Then he will flee towards the Ludgate and then it is said that he will be deactivated. Such a gate is currently in existence in Israel. Muslims will be victorious at the end of this intellectual struggle, this clash of beliefs. We can also see this from the Qur’an. Several verses point to this, such as verse 55 of Surat an-Nur. It is openly declared that if people are sincere and do not ascribe partners to Allah, He will bestow the victory of Islam on Muslims. This appears in several verses of the Qur’an.
IRAN TV: You regard the appearance of the Mahdi as one of the stages of the Day of Judgment, do you not?
ADNAN OKTAR: We are told that this will commence in the wake of the death of the Mahdi, and of the death of the Prophet ‘Isa (as).
IRAN TV: In terms of the necessary preconditions, does the traditional Islamic interpretation mean that the world will enter into a decline that will prepare the way of the coming of the Mahdi?
ADNAN OKTAR: How much worse could it be?
IRAN TV: No… Does this worsening which exists on the subconscious or already on the conscious level have to be admitted, or could there be such a conception from the way Eastern societies or Islamic ones or those in the Middle East are influenced by a little bulky perspective?
ADNAN OKTAR: There has already been a worsening trend, though things are now improving. Darwinism and atheism have spread, as we can see from newspapers and the television. Muslims have been oppressed, alienated and disgraced. How much worse could it have got?
IRAN TV: So you regard the next stage as being one improvement?
ADNAN OKTAR: Yes, next will come a trends towards things becoming better, though there will still be chaos and oppression, of course. That is another matter.
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IRAN TV: So things are turning for the better without there being a definitive split from what has gone before?
ADNAN OKTAR: Exactly. In other words, there may even be an increase in oppression. But that is a portent of birth. As you know, women suffer terrible pains at the moment of giving birth, and also suffer before that moment. The worst pain will come at just the time of birth, and there is nothing surprising about that. Everything will eventually resolve itself in peace and happiness.
IRAN TV: Do you feel this in your daily life? In other words, you were previously under attack all the time, are things slightly easier for you now?
ADNAN OKTAR: Naturally. That is quite obvious. They used to come and drag me away, but no such thing happens now. The security headquarters was like my second home at one time, and I was constantly being brought before the courts and being sent to prison.
IRAN TV: Could you tell us about how this affected you personally?
ADNAN OKTAR: The police would come to my home in Ortakoy, for example, and my mother would ask who these people were. I would tell her they had come to see me about selling a parcel of land. My mother would say those were just the kind of people they looked like. In other words, she did not believe a word of it. Then I would be hauled off and there would be no word from me, so it was obvious it was not all about a parcel of land. If possible I would phone from the security headquarters, saying that I was under detention. But my mother was already aware of that.
IRAN TV: On what grounds did they take you away in the first place? What were the charges? Whom had you annoyed?
ADNAN OKTAR: There was generally never any concrete evidence; they would just talk about me teaching the faith, what I knew, who taught me and that kind of things.
IRAN TV: Did they ask more specific questions?
ADNAN OKTAR: They would sometimes tear the statement up and throw it away. It was sometimes unclear who had asked for the statement in the first place.
IRAN TV: You mean that the instruction had emanated from somewhere else?
ADNAN OKTAR: I think there was psychological pressure going on. Trying to teach me a lesson or put me in my place. I even spent time in a mental institution, they put me in there. I was in there for 10 months, but there is no situation so bad that a person cannot withstand. God has promised in His verses to place no greater burden on us then we can bear. In prison I went through the forensic medicine department, where all was chaos; an old man was standing there in his pyjamas. The mad people were shouting out, and my dormitory was where they housed the insane. They also put me in the insane ward in the security department detention facility. There were lunatics crying out at the top of their lungs, faded lights. I eventually smiled, seeing Allah’s test and great mind. It was like a film studio, if a horror film is being recorded. It is clear that God was testing me, and I smiled because the test was a pleasure for me, I remember that very well. Because I was enjoying the way I was being tested. Some of the insane in the mental hospital walked around stark naked, covered in filth, shouting and crying out. And I spent 10 months there. That was a superb test. It is one of the events I am proud of. The harder God’s test, the better it is. Such places are where love of God is best expressed. No matter how bad the conditions, that is where His love is best expressed. If you love then you have to express that love don’t you? The beloved has to suffer for his love.
IRAN TV: And is there a price to pay?
ADNAN OKTAR: Of course a price has to be paid for us, that is the condition for Him showing His love.
IRAN TV: What were the charges involved? You were found guilty.
ADNAN OKTAR: There were plenty. I was sentenced to 2 years for Islamic propaganda. But Article 163 of the Penal Code was later dropped, and my sentence with it. I once said I was a Turk, that my people were Turkish and my nation was Islam. That was when they became enraged and my time in the psychiatric prison began. But it is true, I am one of the Turkish people, and am proud of the fact.
IRAN TV: These things are the philosophy behind the founding of Turkey are they not? Aren’t they the things emphasised by Ziya Gökalp and the like in a constant basis?
ADNAN OKTAR: Yes… Then after 19 months the prosecutor who wanted me locked up said I was innocent after all and let me go – the very same prosecutor. In other words, he totally exonerated me, saying there was no crime committed. I have great respect for the justice system but what was he waiting for all that time, what need was there for me to spend 19 months inside? Why lock me away in a psychiatric hospital for 10 months and 9 months in…? But it is actually Allah Who does all these things. There is goodness in it. He was showing me that I was showing my love for Him.
IRAN TV: They may have thought to neutralize the effectiveness of your ideas by doing this to you in person. ADNAN OKTAR: Definitely. I think they did it to make people wonder why they were reading my books since I was mad, why they were following a lunatic, someone who cannot even manage his own life. But the reaction was in fact the exact opposite. My ideas developed, and my time in prison was when I wrote most books. That was where I wrote the one about Freemasonry and Judaism. I wrote it in prison. Such actions are no solution and are not rational, they are really rather shameful. When I was in prison the lunatics there thought I was a doctor. My mother would bring food in and I would give it to them. I felt sorry for them and handed it all over to them. These people were mad but respectful and filled with love.
IRAN TV: How is it that the Masons have built an organisation capable of intervening in the press and in the judicial system? Like selling of the Manavgat spring at market, such as with the GAP project or the way they attempt to build a Kurdish state. How can they influence so many areas?
ADNAN OKTAR: I would not let them build a Kurdish state myself, I challenge that. I am speaking in my own name and, I trust, in that of my foundation colleagues. I am referring to the foundation of which I am honorary president, on behalf of my colleagues there. Neither as individuals nor as a nation can we ever permit such a thing. In other words, neither the Turkish nation nor we can permit it.
IRAN TV: Why are you so opposed to it. Can we learn your reasons? Is it nationalist sensitivity or do you look at it from the point of view of all the calculations in the Middle East?
ADNAN OKTAR: This is a beginning of oppression, sad to say, they will eliminate the Kurds there. They will be eliminated right from the start. First is their elimination in the wake of the establishment of a communist Kurdistan, then Israel will move into the region and finally Israel will also be destroyed. A chain of systematic bloodshed, in other words. What a terrible tragedy for the people there.
IRAN TV: Do you see this as a key? The founding of a Kurdish state from the point of view of this process. Is the place a key point?
ADNAN OKTAR: We can accept it as a key point, of course. If any weakness is shown there, Masonry will confidently step in. And this is highly dangerous.
IRAN TV: Could it go as far as dividing Turkey up?
ADNAN OKTAR: Of course, Indeed Turkey is like a lion in the region. It flew the flag for Islam for a thousand years, and its people are highly intelligent. I am no racist, but I truly regard Turkey as the finest representative of Islam. Like a genetic inheritance from the Ottomans, one bestowed by God, inshaAllah. If peace is to be brought to the region, in my view Turkey is the country to do it. I am not saying that Turkey should invade, not at all. Turkey will remain inside its national boundaries, but it will preserve its role as a nation state, its unitary nature, but will act like an older brother towards the region. It will halt the injustices there and put an end to the unrest. I want it to be a super state whose words are heeded.
IRAN TV: Isn’t the way it is drawing closer to Israel an obstacle to stay in peace with Kurds in the neighboring regions and with the Muslim lands which Turkey has traditional connections with? ?
ADNAN OKTAR: A religious Israel, one that is devout and adheres to the Torah poses no danger to Turkey.
IRAN TV: But in reality is that the case?
ADNAN OKTAR: That is the whole point. A godless state of Israel, a godless Israel is a danger to Turkey. And godlessness is spreading rapidly in Israel. Ask the people in charge there and they will admit the fact. When we speak to them they say so. . We want to meet with devout Jews but cannot find any. Only very rarely. We have invited them here, but they are very scarce. The young people being raised there generally reject the Torah and all religions, under Masonic leadership. That is a real threat. It is a tragedy for Israel, and they need to be saved. My colleagues went there and held conferences on the invalidity of Darwinism and handed out books. We made great efforts in order that Israel should not be godless. That is why we are warning them and their leaders and statesmen.
IRAN TV: But a little while earlier you said it was Turkey that would restore the region. That is a hope and what should happen. Turkey’s current policy in the Middle East, relations between Turkey and Israel, above all the military agreements between the two, and the fact that these mainly came about when the Welfare Party was in power, all coincide with that same period. What position is Turkey now occupying in the Middle East? What is it doing?
ADNAN OKTAR: Let me summarize. If Darwinism is brought down, which it is about to be, then satan will be neutralized. What we will have is a satan with broken arms and broken legs. He will be unable to take any action. The whole thing depends on the elimination of atheism and work in favor of belief. When this is succeeded the matter will be closed. In other words, satan cannot survive in a system of belief in God . The Qur’an says as much, it says that he has no influence on anyone other than those who believe in him (satan), he cannot influence the believers. He can only influence the unbelievers. That is why the only solution lies in describing the beauties of Islam and the Qur’an, the existence and oneness of God, that Darwinism is a fraud. I think that Turkey, developments there, is doing well. The Turkish Army is a highly moral one, as is the Turkish nation. You will see this clearly in the next years. The Turkish Army and nation are the leaders of a great mission. You will see that they will do great things and play a leading role in bringing peace and justice to the world. I am not speaking as a racist. I am speaking this as humanity, as a beauty, as one of the many beauties of Islam. The Turkish nation has a huge respect for Islam, as does the Turkish Army. One must not be misled by appearances, but must judge by results.
IRAN TV: I am asking in terms of state policy, from the political party in power …
ADNAN OKTAR: That is not important. Not important. At the end of the day, God’s word will be done.
IRAN TV: Of course.
ADNAN OKTAR: Judge by the results. Policies and interventions may be incorrect. But even they are auspicious. Maybe Turkey’s rapprochement with Israel may have the effect of awakening Israel.
IRAN TV: So you are completely optimistic?
ADNAN OKTAR: Yes, a religious Turkey and a religious Israel pose no threat to the region. The danger will arise if atheism continues to spread. That much is certain.
IRAN TV: Maybe Turkey is implementing a more lively diplomacy in the second term. The signing of a natural gas agreement with Iran, for instance, and its previous policy towards Syria and its neighbors was a more hostile one.
ADNAN OKTAR: That means it is very good.
IRAN TV: Can we attribute this development to that?
ADNAN OKTAR: Of course, it now looks more affectionately on Iraq, and more affectionately on Syria. The same applies to Jordan and Iran. Note how it is friendly and protective towards Afghanistan. Turkey conception, as an older brother, of brotherhood, friendship and justice can be seen throughout the region. If you look carefully, you can see it. And this is increasing. This is an excellent thing.
IRAN TV: Has the new government had an impact on this?
ADNAN OKTAR: As a state, yes. In terms of state policy, yes. Governments come and go, but the state is fundamental, state is permanent. This is the perspective of the state. That is how we should look at things.
IRAN TV: Let us now go back to your own, personal activities. You hold conferences to that end in Israel, how are you received there?
ADNAN OKTAR: Very well.
IRAN TV: You are received very well. How do they regard you? Since you have had very dramatic times here?
ADNAN OKTAR: Religious Jews like me. Atheist Jews are a problem. There is no problem with devout Jews. They attend with great interest and joy. They ask us to tell them what is going on. They say their young people are becoming irreligious and that this makes them uneasy. That is what they say.
IRAN TV: Are conferences being held in other countries apart from Israel?
ADNAN OKTAR: In America, of course, in Germany and our colleagues are holding them all over Russia.
IRAN TV: What kind of contacts do you establish there? Do they issue invitations?
ADNAN OKTAR: Of course. Mainly Muslim young people, Muslims and Muslim associations. Those who issue invitations in Israel are Jews. They ask us to come and save their young people from godlessness. They have fallen into the clutches of Darwinism, they say, and ask us to rescue them. It is the same with Christians. They also ask for help and say that these circles are trying to make their young people godless Darwinists. We get a lot of requests asking us to go and speak of the existence of God and the invalidity of Darwinism. I could give you a whole long list.
IRAN TV: Because I imagine they face the same problems. They sought to have creation included in the curriculum in America and must have experienced the same difficulties.
ADNAN OKTAR: Of course. We need to look at who puts these words in Mr. Tantan’s mouth. I recently spoke, if you recall, and he says that is more of a threat than the PKK. That is true, but in what exact sense more of a threat than the PKK? A threat to atheism. A force opposed to it. I am a threat to atheism. I am a threat to satan. For Islam, I am a source of peace, a helper and friend.
IRAN TV: You have a powerful impact on people’s lives, particularly in terms of unmasking the main players. Could there be a link between that and what is being said?
ADNAN OKTAR: Could you repeat your question?
IRAN TV: Because these words are very historic. In addition to your activities against atheism at that time, in the sense of unmasking their lives, you were working for the benefit of the country…
ADNAN OKTAR: Yes, I remember that there were a number of periodicals that supported me at that time, and various articles and pictures appeared in them, which may have raised suspicions. But from my point of view, the only method I employ is to describe proper moral values, the moral virtues of the Qur’an, the collapse of Darwinism – that is my technique.
IRAN TV: Have your activities developed within a more general framework? Are they more content focused? For example, you used to concentrate more on the individual.
ADNAN OKTAR: That is true.
IRAN TV: Is that a change of posture?
ADNAN OKTAR: Naturally, as I grow older and acquire greater culture and knowledge and achieve a greater understanding of the Qur’an my view has become sharper and more profound, and I see this as a positive thing. For that reason I now concentrate more on views that will make things better in a radical way rather than on the details.
IRAN TV: Your name has recently cropped up many times in the TV programme “objective news” on a couple of people, and they still insist on bringing it up.
ADNAN OKTAR: I don’t bother about them, they are wasting their time. IRAN TV: They still insist on.
ADNAN OKTAR: I don’t get involved in such arguments. They are a waste of time.
IRAN TV: They are your exact opposite. It is as if they are trying to go back to early days.
ADNAN OKTAR: Yes.
IRAN TV: That is what they are trying to do.
ADNAN OKTAR: They are trying to change the direction. I don’t bother myself about such things. They are peripheral. I have no time to devote to them, to such hollow matters. Why should I bother with one aspect of an issue when it can be resolved as a whole?
IRAN TV: Have you had any contributions on the national curriculum? Or will you have? Do you have any recommendations to give? Darwin’s theory, for example. I can give you a name. On one television program Nur Serter said, in respect of the relation in between Islam and science; to someone presumably presenting New Asia, who stated that Islam and science are not incompatible, upon this statement Nur Serter directly said: then do you believe in Darwinism?” in an attempt to clothe Darwinism in science. Yet this theory of Darwin’s is imposed on us right from middle school or high school. Are you currently playing any role in having the theory of Creation made part of the curriculum or having any impact on the Education Ministry? Do you have any contacts?
ADNAN OKTAR: We have no such contacts. I have no such contacts with official circles.
IRAN TV: Have they not asked for your views?
ADNAN OKTAR: No, they have not sought my opinion.
IRAN TV: But they must make use of you as a source material
ADNAN OKTAR: Probably yes. That may well be. But no matter what they do, Darwinism has still been dealt a lethal blow. Their brains are ill, they are rotten.
IRAN TV: Materialists?
ADNAN OKTAR: Of course. They need to receive treatment, to have their brains wiped clear and cleansed. Only Then they can tell them about the Qur’an. To someone believing in Darwinism it makes no difference for them. How much you tell about the marvelous structure in fish or birds, of the delights of God, because he will still believe that such things are the results of evolution. He will listen in sense of pitty in his own mind.
IRAN TV: Darwinism was presumably no danger here in this society. I guess the conditions were very different.
ADNAN OKTAR: Of course.
IRAN TV: But circumstances are very different now.
ADNAN OKTAR: Indeed. It is obvious that someone whose brain is filled with such ideas cannot possibly comprehend the Qur’an. For example, I tell him all about the marvels of the spider. But he still believes that the spider came into being through evolution over millions of years, and therefore sees no marvels at all in it. First of all, society is generally unaware that Darwinism is a fraud, that the millions of fossils discovered all go to disprove it, that it is technically impossible for proteins to form by chance, that the skulls out forward as evidence of evolution have all been hoaxes and have not been human, whereas human skulls have never changed at all. Or else, society is only just beginning to realize these things. And when people do learn them, they are completely stunned.
IRAN TV: You have also held exhibitions of fossils. Could you tell us something about those?
ADNAN OKTAR: Look, fossils are exactly the same as their counterparts alive today. They are 110 million years old or 120 million and belong to thousands of different life forms, but none has ever changed.
IRAN TV: Do you have your own research groups? Or do have relations with any bodies abroad?
ADNAN OKTAR: These are fossils borrowed from friends’ collections and exhibited on a temporary basis.
IRAN TV: And then…
ADNAN OKTAR: They are returned to their owners.
IRAN TV: Is there anything further you would like to add, about the future of the world, Turkey’s role in it, anything in your own name…
ADNAN OKTAR:
ADNAN OKTAR: Yes…
IRAN TV: What is your view of the world. You said things had taken a more positive turn, but…
ADNAN OKTAR: Turkey and the world will assume a better position within the next 10 to 15 years. That will usher in an age of peace and security. The return of the Messiah is a certain fact, as is the coming of the Mahdi, InshAllah. That is in any case apparent from my books. One can go on line for more proofs of this, to obtain more detail. All the portents are described there. There are around 300 portents of the coming of the Messiah, which have all come about, and 300 regarding the coming of the Mahdi, and they have all come true. Around 300 portents… These are indisputable, they are sure and certain facts. They cannot be denied. Darwinism is in its death throes. But this is spreading only slowly, and will take a bit of time. We are heading in the direction of an Islamic Union based on every member state maintaining its own national identity on a foundation of peace, brotherhood and love, towards a system that will make the idea of Turk-Islam union a reality. That is my opinion.
IRAN TV: When you say an Islamic Union, what do you mean?
ADNAN OKTAR: All the Turkic states, all the Muslim Turkic states and Islamic nations.
IRAN TV: All of them?
ADNAN OKTAR: Yes, all. They are all Muslims in any case. But I must make it clear that this will be under Turkish leadership, led by the Turkish nation.
IRAN TV: At the helm?
ADNAN OKTAR: Indeed, at the helm. I say this so that people should know the truth and so no time should be lost in the search for a leader. Turkey will be its leader, InshAllah. The Tantan affair may have not been so clearWhat I previously explained is that I don’t blame Tantan personally. Tantan was under the influence of people advocating this idea. It was obviously unpleasant to refer to me as a greater threat than the PKK, and also untrue. Yes, I am a danger to the PKK, to atheism, to godlessness, to Freemasonry. But I am a friend and protector of the Turkish nation, filled with love and at the command of the state, of my nation. I wish to make that crystal clear, InshAllah.
